This is the recipe from Bee Wilder's Website. She knows a lot about
digestive issues, at one point she herself could only eat something
like 6 foods (not exact). She healed herself and her group is all
about healing.

  3 large whole raw eggs (organic, or local)
  2 Tblspoons coconut oil
  2 Tblspoons butter
  1 teaspoon ground cinnamon or to taste
  1/2 teaspoon nutmeg or to taste
  1 pinch of stevia or to taste
  2-2 1/2  cups of boiled filtered water

Put the first 6 ingredients in blender and add boiled water last.
Blend well.
Some people like this drink cold and some like it hot. This recipe
makes enough for a few drinks throughout the day. I hope this helps!
Best Wishes in Healing! Crystal


--- In native-nutrition@yahoogroups.com, "Laura C." <lecody2001@...>
wrote:
>
> Can I get a little more detail on the drink, how much of everything
that goes in it... it actually sounds interesting....
>
> Laura
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: c.glow
>   To: native-nutrition@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 12:32 PM
>   Subject: [NN] Re: Need Help with Diet Suggestions
>
>
    There are a lot of people who cannot tolerate a lot of foods in
the
>   group. One recipe is Bee's Raw Egg Drink (it contains raw eggs,
good
>   coconut oil, butter, water, cinnamon, nutmeg, and optional
stevia).
>   That might be easy for you to digest and it is super Nourishing.
>   Also, have you heard of the "Optimal Diet" by Polish Doctor Jan
>   Kwasniewski? Here is the link to the afore mentioned group:
>   http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/candidasupport/. Crystal
>
>>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Here is Bee Wilder's Egg Drink recipe from her website (she also has
a site www.healingnaturallybybee.com

3 large whole raw eggs, organic
2 Tblspoons coconut oil
2 Tblspoons butter
1 tsp ground cinnamon or to taste
1/2 tsp nutmeg or to taste
1 pinch of stevia or to taste
2-2 1/2 cups boiled filtered water

Place first 6 ingredients in blender than add water. Blend well.
Makes enough to drink throughout day. Can drink hot or cold,
whichever you prefer. Best Wishes in Healing! Crystal

--- In native-nutrition@yahoogroups.com, "Laura C." <lecody2001@...>
wrote:
>
> Can I get a little more detail on the drink, how much of everything
that goes in it... it actually sounds interesting....
>
> Laura
>

Thanks for the links... I will gather the ingredients for the drink and try it..
I will check out the web site... I already signed up for the newsletter....

More suggestions for drinks welcome...

Laura


   ----- Original Message -----
   From: joanhulvey
   To: native-nutrition@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 12:55 PM
   Subject: [NN] Re: Need Help with Diet Suggestions


   Have you tried making bone broths? The gelatin is supposed to be
   healing and easy to digest. An easy way to get good fat is add either
   coconut oil or coconut milk to the broth. Also, a few links with good
   suggestions for digestive disorders:
   1) the recipe for Bee's Raw Egg Drink {Smoothie}
   http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/recipes/recipe167.php
   2) I recommend the book (Fourfold Path to Healing); but you can also
   get lots of free info at the web site:
   http://fourfoldhealing.com/2005/04/01/focus-how-the-liver-orchestrates-
   our-internal-spring-cleaning/
   3) Jordan Rubin (Maker's diet) describes how his digestive health was
   restored:
   http://www.westonaprice.org/moderndiseases/restore_digestivehealth.html





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I am on a Candida program that addresses a lot of digestive issues.
There are a lot of people who cannot tolerate a lot of foods in the
group. One recipe is Bee's Raw Egg Drink (it contains raw eggs, good
coconut oil, butter, water, cinnamon, nutmeg, and optional stevia).
That might be easy for you to digest and it is super Nourishing.
Also, have you heard of the "Optimal Diet" by Polish Doctor Jan
Kwasniewski? Here is the link to the afore mentioned group:
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/candidasupport/. Crystal

--- In native-nutrition@yahoogroups.com, "cbrown2008" <cbrown2008@...>
wrote:
>
> > Well I tried to add meat back into my diet  [mostly liver] and the
> intestinal problems resurfaced... So I am looking for suggestions on
> how to eat a high fat -moderate protein -low carb diet [less than 20
%
> of calories] without eating dense food like meat... need more mushy
> foods that won't cause intestinal pain.  Absolutely no grains...
can't
> tolerate them.. except rice in small quantities occasionally.
> >
> > Laura
>

Has anyone checked out the new edition?  I've been meaning to reread
it, and I'm wondering whether it's worth selling my copy and picking
up a copy of the new edition.  How much extra material is there?  Is
it substantive and interesting?  And what about the photos -- how much
better are the reproductions in the new version?

Thanks,

-Paul

> How is this "structuring" the water?  I mean, seriously, what the heck
> is "structure" in water?  Seems to me I might just as well talk about
> "mana", or "mojo", or "Paul Idol Energy", units of which would of
> course be measured in "slices".  I don't mean to knock remineralizing
> filtered water, as really pure water doesn't exist in nature and thus
> might be physiologically dubious, but what that has to do with
> "structure" escapes me.
>
> -Paul


Well I believe structure in water is partly due to the electric charge
of attraction and repulsion created by all of the dissolved ions.
That creates a sort of structure, a fluid, changing structure but
theres still some sort of order, a type of balance. But structure
doesn't equal good, it just means it isn't absolutely pure and blank.
  You can most certainly have badly structured water by doing something
like adding chlorine.

There may also be some things that we can't measure as of yet, or we
just aren't looking at or deeming important when it comes to water.
For instance, most people believe muscles are muscles and just for
moving but I believe muscles can also store memories, and have seen a
show about people with heart transplants who experienced memories that
didn't belong to them but to the organ donor.

Also, I have heard stories from people who I trust about chi kung
practices which involved charging water with chi and using that as the
only medicine and it being effective.

Its just how much you really want to believe I guess...

-Gary

I have some 5 gallon glazed ceramic crocks.  If they tested free of
lead would there be any other reason not to use them for kombucha??
Or should I just stick to smaller batches in glass?

-Gary

Hi Paul,
Can you please share what asthma medicine you were on and what
natural helps you have found.  Allergy season is approaching here and
i do not want to use my inhaler.  I only have to use it during the
June-July months and only here in my hometown (Oregon - Willamette
Valley area).  I have lived in a couple of different areas of Cali,
in WA., in TN/Kentucky area, and Germany.  Did not use my inhaler in
those areas.  Only when i live here.

This past pregnancy i had to use it as we just moved back to Oregon
right at the season and had been away from it for 4 yrs.  It was
coined the worst season for pollen etc... plus i think being away
from it all for so long then coming back maybe i was not as
tolerant.  I was in bad shape and had to go to the doc and have one
prescribed nothing at the HFS was working.  I started suffering from
major reflux and indigestion which i had not experienced before the
inhaler, at least i recall it being after.  Now i am wondering if the
inhaler may have made it happen.  I know that PG can aggravate and
cause things like this but your post got me curious if my inhaler
played a role in it.

A side note, I was recently reading an article that says asthma is
totally an adrenal thing - low adrenal.  I am very curious about this
too.  Anyone else know more about this thought?

Julia

  --- In native-nutrition@yahoogroups.com, Paul Idol <PaulIdol@...>
wrote:
>
>I took an asthma medication which
> largely destroyed my production of stomach acid. Along with other
> problems, this caused my lower esophageal sphincter to malfunction
> (and/or atrophy and/or become infected and stop working properly as
a
> result) which in turn caused ongoing problems with reflux,
aspiration
> of stomach acid and a resulting degradation of lung function.  IOW,
in
> effect the asthma drug ultimately led to more asthma.  So needless
to
> say, I've spent some time looking into remedies.
>
> -Paul

We've been making ginger beer from NT and mead from Wild
fermentations. We don't have any equipment - yet. Just some big jars
for brewing and small bottles that we've saved from other things.

Ginger beer has become everyone's favourite - I'm going to have to
step up production for summer.

-- In native-nutrition@yahoogroups.com, "jkruer01" <jkruer01@...> wrote:
>
> Hey Everyone,
>
> I am new to the list and new to native-nutrition style eating.  I am
> interested in getting started with home brewing.

--- In native-nutrition@yahoogroups.com, Paul Idol <PaulIdol@...> wrote:
>
> Not particularly well AFAIK, though YMMV.
>
> -Paul
>
That's the way it always has seemed, though I don't really know. Fil
mjolk is too easy to make and is so much easier to drink for everyone
in my family. Kefir - even if I only leave it out only 12 hours - is a
tough sell.

Paul,

> How is this "structuring" the water? I mean, seriously, what the heck
> is "structure" in water? Seems to me I might just as well talk about
> "mana", or "mojo", or "Paul Idol Energy", units of which would of
> course be measured in "slices". I don't mean to knock remineralizing
> filtered water, as really pure water doesn't exist in nature and thus
> might be physiologically dubious, but what that has to do with
> "structure" escapes me.

All water has structure to it, in that the molecules are not
free-floating singly but are tightly arranged in "water clusters,"
usually organized around ions in some way, including H+ and OH- ions
formed from the autodissociation of the water.

My understanding, based on stuff I've read a long time ago from these
folks, is that they claim to make the water clusters smaller.

Based on the typical osmotic view of the cell, I wouldn't expect this
to have any effect.  However, I read a rather intriguing book called
_Life at the Cell and Below-Cell Level_ by Gilbert Ling, who has a
totally different idea of how the cell works, which formed the basis
for the MRI.  Frankly I don't have the knowledge to be able to figure
out whether his ideas make any sense as they totally contradict a huge
chunk of conventional cell biology.  But his view of how the cell
works -- in which the water is not liquid in the cell but more like
jello -- really changes the implications for what would determine
water's entry into the cell.

Anyway, I still don't understand how "structured" water could maintain
the same structure once it hits the acidity of the stomach.

But I know very little about this stuff.  Either way, there is some
sense to the idea of water structure, whether the stuff is really more
hydrating or not.  On personal experience, it seems to me that Penta
water is more hydrating than plain water, but it could very well be
placebo effect.

Chris

Julia I had asthma from the age of 9 to the age of 22.  Used 3
inhalers, and had allergies so bad that I took meds for them and
carried an epi-pen.

My last year of living at home with my parents (age 22) my father
called me to a health challenge...to see who could be the
healthiest.  The only rule was that we could not eat meat, eggs and
dairy were fine though.  I don't know why, I think it was just his
mindset at the time.

So I juiced 1 tall glass (of ANYTHING my mother had in the
fridge...and never organic) once a day, and made my last meal of the
day 1 LARGE salad full of anything I could think of, veggies,
fruits, seeds, dried fruits, eggs, cheese ... (including bad salad
dressing)  Along with going to the gym about 3 times a week to do
aerobics.

About the 2nd month into our challenge I noticed my menstrual cycle
was RIGHT on time (NEVER happened before, but I think that was
because of all the hormones in the conventional meat I use to eat)
Another strange thing was that I wasn't popping my allergy meds.  It
was at that point that I realized ... I hadn't used ANY of my
inhalers for over A MONTH !

I kept on with the challenge for about 9 months...and then I got
married !  That was the last time I saw a gym :(  I am 38 now and I
still have never had a return of my asthma.  My allergies did
return....but I now knew how to banish them...Eat a clean diet,
exercise & juice, which I did again and they went away.

My husband had heartburn for as long as I have known him.  He kept
Rolaids and Tums EVERYWHERE!  I read somewhere that celery helps
with stomach acid production.  I began making him celery & apple
juices (very little apple).   I don't recall how many days or weeks
it took... but he no longer gets heartburn...except the one time
that he began eating REALLY bad food for months on end again.  And
when it returned I just gave him the hairy-eyeball and started
giving him the celery juice again.  He then cleaned up his diet once
more and heartburn has never bothered him since.

I've just learned a little about fresh juices having pre-biotics.  I
come from a childhood riddled with antibiotics...and that right
there is where all my problems began ;)

Michelle






--- In native-nutrition@yahoogroups.com, "Julia"
<beauty4ashesisaiah61@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Paul,
> Can you please share what asthma medicine you were on and what
> natural helps you have found.  Allergy season is approaching here
and
> i do not want to use my inhaler.  I only have to use it during the
> June-July months and only here in my hometown (Oregon - Willamette
> Valley area).  I have lived in a couple of different areas of
Cali,
> in WA., in TN/Kentucky area, and Germany.  Did not use my inhaler
in
> those areas.  Only when i live here.
>
> This past pregnancy i had to use it as we just moved back to
Oregon
> right at the season and had been away from it for 4 yrs.  It was
> coined the worst season for pollen etc... plus i think being away
> from it all for so long then coming back maybe i was not as
> tolerant.  I was in bad shape and had to go to the doc and have
one
> prescribed nothing at the HFS was working.  I started suffering
from
> major reflux and indigestion which i had not experienced before
the
> inhaler, at least i recall it being after.  Now i am wondering if
the
> inhaler may have made it happen.  I know that PG can aggravate and
> cause things like this but your post got me curious if my inhaler
> played a role in it.
>
> A side note, I was recently reading an article that says asthma is
> totally an adrenal thing - low adrenal.  I am very curious about
this
> too.  Anyone else know more about this thought?
>
> Julia
>
>  --- In native-nutrition@yahoogroups.com, Paul Idol <PaulIdol@>
> wrote:
> >
> >I took an asthma medication which
> > largely destroyed my production of stomach acid. Along with
other
> > problems, this caused my lower esophageal sphincter to
malfunction
> > (and/or atrophy and/or become infected and stop working properly
as
> a
> > result) which in turn caused ongoing problems with reflux,
> aspiration
> > of stomach acid and a resulting degradation of lung function.
IOW,
> in
> > effect the asthma drug ultimately led to more asthma.  So
needless
> to
> > say, I've spent some time looking into remedies.
> >
> > -Paul
>

Hi

   I started with Kombucha tea and Kefir...  Bought a 5 gallon bucket for KTea
much easier to do continuous brewing...  I  end up brewing it a couple of weeks,
then bottle...   So bought a bottle capper, pleanty of bottles from friends  -- 
This is where I learned about fermentation and secondary fermentation and
bottling....

   Kefir well I only do the milk Kefir..  Plop the gains in milk, let it ferment
abt 24 hours, strain and drink...  Great..

   Didn't die from botulism....

   This past year I make Hard Apple cider...  (6 gallon bucket).  Use 5 gallons
apple cider, brown sugar (2#), 2 packages of yeast,,,  Let it Ferment a month
and put into gallon jugs to clarify....    Needed a couple airlocks, used some
hose from the fish store...  finally bottled it into beer bottles  (sam bAdams
is good)  (the ones that are not twist off) let it mellow a couple of months, 
taste testing it...    Believe me it is not something you drink right away.... 
(makes fur patches on the back of your tongue)...  Mine is mellowing out now....
Starting to taste good..  Of course taste testing the past couple of months has
lowered the quantity  (I'm learming as I go)

   Today I bought a 3 gallon Carboy to make mead (an old celtic drink --  Honey -
water - yeast) (takes abt 2 years b4 you can drink...


   All I am saying here is, try one thing at a time...  No sense going and buying
out  the store..  Believe me they will try to sell you kits...   You  dont have
to buy a lot of equipment...  Keep it simple...  Buy as you go...

   I'm having fun taking it one step at a time...

   In another month or so will make dandelion wine...  Wish me luck..., blueberry
wine etc...







jkruer01 <jkruer01@...> wrote:
           Hey Everyone,

I am new to the list and new to native-nutrition style eating. I am
interested in getting started with home brewing. At first I want to
start simple and was thinking about getting started with Kefir Beer
and Kombucha. Then I wanted to branch into lacto-fermented cokes and
finally beer and wine.

I want to make sure I enjoy doings this before I spend a couple
hundred bucks on equipment so I am trying to get started cheap.

If anyone has any advice for a newbie brewer I would appreciate it.

I was reading about Kefir Beer and if I am reading it correctly, it
sounds like I can simply add Kefir grains to a glass container of
Apple or Grape Juice and let it sit out for about 48 hours. Will
store bought juice work or do you have to make your own?

Thanks,
Jeremy






~~PEACE~~
HippeeSandee
HippeeSandee's Endless Mountains Realm
"People don't stop dancing because they get too old
   People get old because they stop dancing"



---------------------------------
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total
Access, No Cost.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The photos are definitely clearer. Is this a big deal for most owners? I doubt
it. I haven't
read (yet) the new written material, which consists of an academic article on
acidity of the
diet and some personal correspondence from Price. There is also some
editorializing at
the end, I suppose by some affiliate of the Price-Pottenger foundation. I did
flip through
the 20 pages of new photos. They are mostly positive portrayals of health
people. You get
a better idea of how the people in the groups Price visited lived, but few new
shots of
degenerated teeth.

I am glad I bought it but the cost was not a big deal for me.

Jeremy

--- In native-nutrition@yahoogroups.com, Paul Idol <PaulIdol@...> wrote:
>
> Has anyone checked out the new edition?  I've been meaning to reread
> it, and I'm wondering whether it's worth selling my copy and picking
> up a copy of the new edition.  How much extra material is there?  Is
> it substantive and interesting?  And what about the photos -- how much
> better are the reproductions in the new version?
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Paul
>

I¡¦m planning to buy some US ginseng for my dad but don¡¦t know which brand is
good or which farm to order from? I know Illinois has some ginseng farms which
we can order directly from. But I have no idea which one has good quality.


   Any suggestion is highly appreciated.

   Thanks a lot,
   Lily


Thomas Seay <entheogens@...> wrote:          --- In
native-nutrition@yahoogroups.com, "carolyn_graff"
<zgraff@...> wrote:
>
> Has anyone read The Yoga of Eating? It helped me to give up eating
foods that didn't taste
> good to me. I only ate them because I thought they were "healthy."

Carolyn, I had never heard of that book, before you mentioned it. I
am considering buying it. Thanks for the tip.

Have you seen positive results from eating this way? I wonder about
our abilities to discern instinctively what might be the best
foods. I suspect that at one time our instincts were much more
finely tuned than they are now, and so wonder if my instincts about
foods are strong enough to do just that.

What is your (or anybody else's) experience with this? How much
does your theoretical knowledge get in the way of this? How long
have you been eating according to your instincts?

-Thomas





  _______________________________________
  »¶Ó­Ê¹Óó¬´óÈÝÁ¿ÑÅ»¢ÓÊÏä
  http://cn.mail.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Wow I just joined this group today and already a topic I can post on. I am a
homebrew
idiot! I mean my hobby is I have been brewing for about 19 months and I have 26
batches
and 6 medals (from competitions) under my belt. I make all malt beer from 100%
grain
and I am getting really good at it. I would be more than happy to help out with
any
specific questions that you have and if I can't answer your questions I know
tons of
resources so I can certainly point you in the right direction.

I do have a question of my own. I would like to start making kombucha so I
bought and
read a book on the subject. The book said definitively not to use anything but
clear glass
to store your kombucha. As a well outfitted homebrewer I have a hard time
believing that
a stainless steel keg or brown bottles would not be a suitable storage container
for
kombucha. So can I use non reactive storage vessels other than clear glass to
store my
finished kombucha product?

Thank you in advance for any information.

Jason


--- In native-nutrition@yahoogroups.com, "threehearts0o0" <threehearts0o0@...>
wrote:
>
> We've been making ginger beer from NT and mead from Wild
> fermentations. We don't have any equipment - yet. Just some big jars
> for brewing and small bottles that we've saved from other things.
>
> Ginger beer has become everyone's favourite - I'm going to have to
> step up production for summer.
>
> -- In native-nutrition@yahoogroups.com, "jkruer01" <jkruer01@> wrote:
> >
> > Hey Everyone,
> >
> > I am new to the list and new to native-nutrition style eating.  I am
> > interested in getting started with home brewing.
>

Gary-

> Well I believe structure in water is partly due to the electric charge
> of attraction and repulsion created by all of the dissolved ions.
> That creates a sort of structure, a fluid, changing structure but
> theres still some sort of order, a type of balance. But structure
> doesn't equal good, it just means it isn't absolutely pure and blank.
> You can most certainly have badly structured water by doing something
> like adding chlorine.

All matter has structure in the most basic sense of the word, but if
we're using "structure" in that sense, then like everything else,
water is never "unstructured".  Nothing made of matter can be
unstructured.  Inasmuch as ice is ordered and water is chaotic, I
suppose one could say that by freezing water, one is raising its level
of order and increasing the degree (or order <g>) of its structure,
but I don't think it's meaningful to talk of the effect on the
_structure_ of water of adding chlorine to it.  Of course it alters
the physical arrangement of molecules and electrical charges, but the
real problem with chlorinated water is the chlorine (and whatever
incidental compounds are added with it or formed by its addition).

> There may also be some things that we can't measure as of yet, or we
> just aren't looking at or deeming important when it comes to water.
> For instance, most people believe muscles are muscles and just for
> moving but I believe muscles can also store memories, and have seen a
> show about people with heart transplants who experienced memories that
> didn't belong to them but to the organ donor.

I'm extremely skeptical of the idea that memories can be stored in
muscles, but that's a testable proposition, and in fact we don't need
to understand _how_ it happens (if in fact it does happen) to verify
that it _does_ happen.  And generally speaking, of course there could
be things that we can't yet measure or understand... but these things
would have effects.  For example, people knew to make a tea out of
willow bark long before aspirin was discovered; the utility of willow
bark tea was a reliable, repeatable phenomenon.  But nobody seems to
have done any kind of testing of the effects that are attributed to
the supposed "structure" of water.  A basic feeding study would be
simple enough to conduct.  For that matter, a simple plant-watering
study would be even simpler and cheaper.

-Paul

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Chris-

> All water has structure to it, in that the molecules are not
> free-floating singly but are tightly arranged in "water clusters,"
> usually organized around ions in some way, including H+ and OH- ions
> formed from the autodissociation of the water.

Of course, but all matter is structured in this sense, in that its
constituent atoms and molecules are arranged in some way or other.
(Also, my understanding is that these water clusters are fluid and
changing, not fixed.)

> My understanding, based on stuff I've read a long time ago from these
> folks, is that they claim to make the water clusters smaller.

Yes, I've read that some (though certainly not all) of the water
structuring people make this claim, but on what do they base it?  (And
unless these smaller clusters are somehow more rigid or durable, it
seems to me that making the clusters smaller would actually make the
water less structured anyway.)

> Based on the typical osmotic view of the cell, I wouldn't expect this
> to have any effect. However, I read a rather intriguing book called
> _Life at the Cell and Below-Cell Level_ by Gilbert Ling, who has a
> totally different idea of how the cell works, which formed the basis
> for the MRI.

Though I don't know the details and so could be missing something (or
a lot of somethings) I don't see how the work of a cellular biologist
could form the basis of the invention of the MRI, which is the result
of a combination of physics and math.

> Frankly I don't have the knowledge to be able to figure
> out whether his ideas make any sense as they totally contradict a huge
> chunk of conventional cell biology. But his view of how the cell
> works -- in which the water is not liquid in the cell but more like
> jello -- really changes the implications for what would determine
> water's entry into the cell.

I certainly can't comment on his hypothesis, but as cells are
extremely small and any water within them highly impure, it would be
silly to expect cellular water to function in the same way that a
glass of water does.

> Anyway, I still don't understand how "structured" water could maintain
> the same structure once it hits the acidity of the stomach.

Or once ANY substance is added to it, as the clustering behavior of
water molecules is dramatically affected by the chemistry of the
materials dissolved in it.

> But I know very little about this stuff. Either way, there is some
> sense to the idea of water structure, whether the stuff is really more
> hydrating or not.

I think there are two different ideas here, though.  One is the fact
that as matter, water has structure, and this structure is affected by
various issues, primarily the nature and number of the ions to be
found within it.  The other is the notion that by performing some sort
of quasi-mystical rituals, people can alter this structure in such a
way as to be beneficial to health.  As far as I can tell, there is
absolutely zero basis whatsoever for the latter family of claims.

> On personal experience, it seems to me that Penta
> water is more hydrating than plain water, but it could very well be
> placebo effect.

It would be interesting to test this, and if you get someone to help
out, it shouldn't be too hard to conduct a very rough experiment.  But
look at what their website says: "The antioxidant and hydration
properties of Penta are due to its state of the art ultra-purification
and patented process that spins the water under high pressure and
speed for 11 hours. This unique process energizes the water and it is
believed that this added energy results in the antioxidant activity to
neutralize Free Radicals. Antioxidants and good hydration are
essential parts of an everyday healthy lifestyle. Great tasting Penta
provides both -- without calories, without preservatives, and without
additives of any kind."  Does that sound even remotely plausible?

-Paul

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jason-

> As a well outfitted homebrewer I have a hard time believing that
> a stainless steel keg or brown bottles would not be a suitable
> storage container for
> kombucha. So can I use non reactive storage vessels other than clear
> glass to store my
> finished kombucha product?

As there seems to be increasing uncertainty about what might leech out
of stainless steel into foods or beverages (particularly acidic ones)
the warning against stainless steel is probably worth heeding, since
kombucha can become very acidic.  I have no idea why brown glass would
be a problem, though.  That doesn't seem to make any sense.

-Paul

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Chris-

I should add that even though their description sounds like utter
gibberish, they could theoretically be accomplishing something that
they either don't understand or don't want to explain to the
competition.

-Paul

> > On personal experience, it seems to me that Penta
> > water is more hydrating than plain water, but it could very well be
> > placebo effect.
>
> It would be interesting to test this, and if you get someone to help
> out, it shouldn't be too hard to conduct a very rough experiment. But
> look at what their website says: "The antioxidant and hydration
> properties of Penta are due to its state of the art ultra-purification
> and patented process that spins the water under high pressure and
> speed for 11 hours. This unique process energizes the water and it is
> believed that this added energy results in the antioxidant activity to
> neutralize Free Radicals. Antioxidants and good hydration are
> essential parts of an everyday healthy lifestyle. Great tasting Penta
> provides both -- without calories, without preservatives, and without
> additives of any kind." Does that sound even remotely plausible?



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bryan-

> Paul, which asthma medication did you take once upon a time?

Singulair.

I'm not sure which was worse -- Singulair, which wiped out my
digestion to this day, or Serevent, which did seemingly permanent
damage to my lungs.

-Paul

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Julia-

> Can you please share what asthma medicine you were on and what
> natural helps you have found.

I've taken various asthma medications over the years.  When I was a
kid, my mom often had to drag me into the doctor's office for an
adrenaline shot to restart my breathing.  I've used an albuterol
inhaler.  I took Singulair for awhile, as I told Bryan.  And once, I
was given Servent, which is like a time-release version of albuterol.
For two days, my lungs were clearer and freer than they'd ever been
before.  It was remarkable.  Extraordinary.  And then there was a
rebound effect which persists to this day.

As to what helps... avoiding conventional dairy, eating properly,
getting a lot of fresh-air exercise, dealing with GERD...

> Allergy season is approaching here and
> i do not want to use my inhaler. I only have to use it during the
> June-July months and only here in my hometown (Oregon - Willamette
> Valley area). I have lived in a couple of different areas of Cali,
> in WA., in TN/Kentucky area, and Germany. Did not use my inhaler in
> those areas. Only when i live here.

I've worked out pretty regularly for several years now, but indoor
exercise made absolutely no dent in my allergies or asthma.  Last
year, though, I started playing some outdoor sports (ultimate frisbee
and then tennis) and much to my surprise, despite the increased
exposure to allergens, my allergies (and asthma) decreased
profoundly.  As soon as it got cooler and I stopped playing frisbee
and tennis every week, presto, back came my allergies and asthma.

> This past pregnancy i had to use it as we just moved back to Oregon
> right at the season and had been away from it for 4 yrs. It was
> coined the worst season for pollen etc... plus i think being away
> from it all for so long then coming back maybe i was not as
> tolerant. I was in bad shape and had to go to the doc and have one
> prescribed nothing at the HFS was working. I started suffering from
> major reflux and indigestion which i had not experienced before the
> inhaler, at least i recall it being after. Now i am wondering if the
> inhaler may have made it happen. I know that PG can aggravate and
> cause things like this but your post got me curious if my inhaler
> played a role in it.

It could definitely play a role.

> A side note, I was recently reading an article that says asthma is
> totally an adrenal thing - low adrenal. I am very curious about this
> too. Anyone else know more about this thought?

Asthma is a symptom that can be caused by a number of different
things.  Saying it's an adrenal thing is like saying a cut is a knife
thing; some cuts are made by knives, yes, but others are made by other
things.  Reflux is not necessarily related to the adrenals at all, and
it can have a profound impact on the lungs.  Ginger juice has helped
me with that, but I have yet to achieve a complete or permanent cure.
Though I'm a little worried about the lactose, I'm going to try kefir
starting this week; maybe that'll be more effective.

-Paul

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Well, you could always try adding a little fruit or some kind of
sweetener to the kefir...

> That's the way it always has seemed, though I don't really know. Fil
> mjolk is too easy to make and is so much easier to drink for everyone
> in my family. Kefir - even if I only leave it out only 12 hours - is a
> tough sell.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Paul,

> Of course, but all matter is structured in this sense, in that its
> constituent atoms and molecules are arranged in some way or other.
> (Also, my understanding is that these water clusters are fluid and
> changing, not fixed.)

Well the term "structured" is obviously a silly marketing device.  I
think their point, at least the point in the explanations I read a
while back if I remember right, is that the structure is different.

> > My understanding, based on stuff I've read a long time ago from these
> > folks, is that they claim to make the water clusters smaller.

> Yes, I've read that some (though certainly not all) of the water
> structuring people make this claim, but on what do they base it?  (And
> unless these smaller clusters are somehow more rigid or durable, it
> seems to me that making the clusters smaller would actually make the
> water less structured anyway.)

I don't think the point is the magnitude of structuring, but rather
the type of structure.  In other words "structured" is short-hand for
"having a more desirable structure."

> Though I don't know the details and so could be missing something (or
> a lot of somethings) I don't see how the work of a cellular biologist
> could form the basis of the invention of the MRI, which is the result
> of a combination of physics and math.

Because cell biology is determined by physics and math?  Flipping
through the back of the book, appendix 1 contains lots of math: The
Trophin equation, the Bradley adsorption isotherm, Ling's equation for
solute distribution in cell water, the Yang-Ling adsorption isotherm,
Ling's general equation for solute distribution in living cells and
simplified versions, Ling's equation for cell permeability, Ling's
equation for cell volume, Ling's equation for the resting potential,
Ling's equation for the action potential.

Whoa -- he even quotes the inventor of the MRI quoting nobel-prize
winning discoverer of several vitamins, Albert Szent Giorgi, using the
term "water structure" !

Briefly, he says that the polarized multilayer (PM) theory of cell
water was the basis for the recognition by Freeman Cope that the NMR
spectrometer should be able to demonstrate the motional restruction of
water implied by the theory, with which one can assess the rotational
correlation time of the hydrogen atoms of the water molecules or their
relaxation times.  PM predicts they should have shorter relaxation
times than pure liquid water, which Cope confirmed.Carlton Hazelwood
made a simultaneous confirmation.  Then Raymond Damadian, inventor of
the MRI, showed that cancer cells have longer relxation times than
normal cells.  He wrote:

"Longer T1 and T2 [relxation times] of tthe water protons in cancer
cells are also in harmony with Albert Szent-Gyorgyi's prophetic
announcement in 1957 in a footnote that cancer has 'less water
structure.'  HIs concept of 'less water structure' in cancer cells is
compatible with the PM theory.  HOwever, subsequent work including
work yet to be published has also shown that 'less water structure' is
only one of the causes of the longer T1 and T2 of cancer tissues
observed."

Damadian invented the MRI and Paul Lauterbur improved it.  On July 15,
1988, they each received the National Technological Award for it from
Reagan and Damadian was inducted the next year into the National
Investors' Hall of Fame for it.

Ling quotes a letter that Damadian wrote to him:

"On the morning of July 3, at 4:45 AM . . . we achieved with great
jubilation the world's first MRI image of the live human body.  The
acievement originated in the modern concepts of salt water biophysics,
on which you are the grand pioneer with your classic treatise, the
association-induction hypothesis."

> I certainly can't comment on his hypothesis, but as cells are
> extremely small and any water within them highly impure, it would be
> silly to expect cellular water to function in the same way that a
> glass of water does.

The conventional view is that the water in cell's is liquid and that
the force of osmosis together with membrane pumps determines the
passage of solutes.  Ling's hypothesis, the association-induction
hypothesis, of which the polarized multilayer theory of water is
based, is that the water is essentially a colloid rather than liquid,
and that osmotic force does not govern the cell, but rather other
forces that I can't explain well because it's been too long since I
read the book (years).

> > Anyway, I still don't understand how "structured" water could maintain
> > the same structure once it hits the acidity of the stomach.

> Or once ANY substance is added to it, as the clustering behavior of
> water molecules is dramatically affected by the chemistry of the
> materials dissolved in it.

Right.  But if you drink the water straight, the stomach would be the
first place I'd expect a dramatic change.

> > But I know very little about this stuff. Either way, there is some
> > sense to the idea of water structure, whether the stuff is really more
> > hydrating or not.

> I think there are two different ideas here, though.  One is the fact
> that as matter, water has structure, and this structure is affected by
> various issues, primarily the nature and number of the ions to be
> found within it.  The other is the notion that by performing some sort
> of quasi-mystical rituals, people can alter this structure in such a
> way as to be beneficial to health.  As far as I can tell, there is
> absolutely zero basis whatsoever for the latter family of claims.

I haven't seen any good evidence either, not that I have looked that hard.

> > On personal experience, it seems to me that Penta
> > water is more hydrating than plain water, but it could very well be
> > placebo effect.

> It would be interesting to test this, and if you get someone to help
> out, it shouldn't be too hard to conduct a very rough experiment.  But
> look at what their website says: "The antioxidant and hydration
> properties of Penta are due to its state of the art ultra-purification
> and patented process that spins the water under high pressure and
> speed for 11 hours. This unique process energizes the water and it is
> believed that this added energy results in the antioxidant activity to
> neutralize Free Radicals. Antioxidants and good hydration are
> essential parts of an everyday healthy lifestyle. Great tasting Penta
> provides both -- without calories, without preservatives, and without
> additives of any kind."  Does that sound even remotely plausible?

Well I believe it is very low in calories.  ;-)

Chris

Thanks for the advise.  That is where I am going to start....with Kefir and
Kombucha.  I have some mason jars that I am going to use for the Kefir and I am
going to buy a 1 gallon glass tea jar for the Kombucha.

Then, I will go from there.

Thanks,

  Jeremy Kruer

Stratton-Kruer Team
RE/MAX Performance Realty
30 Stonecrest Ct
Shelbyville, KY 40065
(O) (502)633-4998
(C) (502)432-5553




----- Original Message ----
From: HippeeSandee <hippeesandee@...>
To: native-nutrition@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 2, 2008 3:49:56 AM
Subject: Re: [NN] Want to get into Home Brewing


Hi

I started with Kombucha tea and Kefir...  Bought a 5 gallon bucket for KTea much
easier to do continuous brewing...  I  end up brewing it a couple of weeks, then
bottle...   So bought a bottle capper, pleanty of bottles from friends  --  This
is where I learned about fermentation and secondary fermentation and
bottling....

Kefir well I only do the milk Kefir..  Plop the gains in milk, let it ferment
abt 24 hours, strain and drink...  Great..

Didn't die from botulism....

This past year I make Hard Apple cider...  (6 gallon bucket).  Use 5 gallons
apple cider, brown sugar (2#), 2 packages of yeast,,,  Let it Ferment a month
and put into gallon jugs to clarify....    Needed a couple airlocks, used some
hose from the fish store...  finally bottled it into beer bottles  (sam bAdams
is good)  (the ones that are not twist off) let it mellow a couple of months, 
taste testing it...    Believe me it is not something you drink right away.... 
(makes fur patches on the back of your tongue)...  Mine is mellowing out now....
Starting to taste good..  Of course taste testing the past couple of months has
lowered the quantity  (I'm learming as I go)

Today I bought a 3 gallon Carboy to make mead (an old celtic drink --  Honey - 
water - yeast) (takes abt 2 years b4 you can drink...


All I am saying here is, try one thing at a time...  No sense going and buying
out  the store..  Believe me they will try to sell you kits...   You  dont have
to buy a lot of equipment...  Keep it simple...  Buy as you go...

I'm having fun taking it one step at a time...

In another month or so will make dandelion wine...  Wish me luck..., blueberry
wine etc...







jkruer01 <jkruer01@yahoo. com> wrote:
Hey Everyone,

I am new to the list and new to native-nutrition style eating. I am
interested in getting started with home brewing. At first I want to
start simple and was thinking about getting started with Kefir Beer
and Kombucha. Then I wanted to branch into lacto-fermented cokes and
finally beer and wine.

I want to make sure I enjoy doings this before I spend a couple
hundred bucks on equipment so I am trying to get started cheap.

If anyone has any advice for a newbie brewer I would appreciate it.

I was reading about Kefir Beer and if I am reading it correctly, it
sounds like I can simply add Kefir grains to a glass container of
Apple or Grape Juice and let it sit out for about 48 hours. Will
store bought juice work or do you have to make your own?

Thanks,
Jeremy

~~PEACE~~
HippeeSandee
HippeeSandee' s Endless Mountains Realm
"People don't stop dancing because they get too old
People get old because they stop dancing"

------------ --------- --------- ---
You rock. That's why Blockbuster' s offering you one month of Blockbuster Total
Access, No Cost.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




      
________________________________________________________________________________\
____
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total
Access, No Cost.
http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jason,

Thanks for the offer, I will keep it in mind.  I have been told not to store it
in plastic because plastic has been known to leech toxins into food and liquids
that are stored in it.  I have also been told not to store Kombucha in something
with a metal spigot because the acidity can reach fairly low levels (i.e. pH of
2 or 3) and it could/would eat through the metal.  As far as the brown glass, I
have not heard of any problems using it but I am new to all this.

Thanks,

  Jeremy




----- Original Message ----
From: jasongazeley <jason.gazeley@...>
To: native-nutrition@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 1, 2008 11:46:24 PM
Subject: [NN] Re: Want to get into Home Brewing


Wow I just joined this group today and already a topic I can post on. I am a
homebrew
idiot! I mean my hobby is I have been brewing for about 19 months and I have 26
batches
and 6 medals (from competitions) under my belt. I make all malt beer from 100%
grain
and I am getting really good at it. I would be more than happy to help out with
any
specific questions that you have and if I can't answer your questions I know
tons of
resources so I can certainly point you in the right direction.

I do have a question of my own. I would like to start making kombucha so I
bought and
read a book on the subject. The book said definitively not to use anything but
clear glass
to store your kombucha. As a well outfitted homebrewer I have a hard time
believing that
a stainless steel keg or brown bottles would not be a suitable storage container
for
kombucha. So can I use non reactive storage vessels other than clear glass to
store my
finished kombucha product?

Thank you in advance for any information.

Jason

--- In native-nutrition@ yahoogroups. com, "threehearts0o0" <threehearts0o0@
...> wrote:
>
> We've been making ginger beer from NT and mead from Wild
> fermentations. We don't have any equipment - yet. Just some big jars
> for brewing and small bottles that we've saved from other things.
>
> Ginger beer has become everyone's favourite - I'm going to have to
> step up production for summer.
>
> -- In native-nutrition@ yahoogroups. com, "jkruer01" <jkruer01@> wrote:
> >
> > Hey Everyone,
> >
> > I am new to the list and new to native-nutrition style eating.  I am
> > interested in getting started with home brewing.
>




      
________________________________________________________________________________\
____
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total
Access, No Cost.
http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

As far as the soda goes, I was thinking more along the lines of lacto-fermented
soda like what is described in this article over at Weston A Price's website:
http://www.westonaprice.org/foodfeatures/Realthing.html

Thanks,

  Jeremy Kruer

Stratton-Kruer Team
RE/MAX Performance Realty
30 Stonecrest Ct
Shelbyville, KY 40065
(O) (502)633-4998
(C) (502)432-5553




----- Original Message ----
From: haecklers <haecklers@...>
To: native-nutrition@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 1, 2008 2:38:10 PM
Subject: [NN] Re: Want to get into Home Brewing


You can make a soda by adding yeast to any sweet beverage, and store
is ok, I've even used canned coconut milk.  A good yeast is s.
boulardii because it's very beneficial to the gut, and you will be
consuming the live yeast.

Some good books are Sandor Katz's "Wild Fermentation" that tells how
to make meade (honey wine) and many other fermented drinks, and "The
New Complete Joy of Homebrewing" by Charlie Papazian, which you can
get cheap used because homebrewing outfits used to give them out for
free with big orders, or so I've been told.  That's a fascinating
book that really goes in depth into the lifecycle of yeast, the
enzymes that turn barley into malt, etc.  Another really good book is
Stephen Harrod Buhner's "Sacred and Herbal Healing Beers" that has
ancient recipes using herbs and  really neat information.

--- In native-nutrition@ yahoogroups. com, "jkruer01" <jkruer01@.. .>
wrote:
>
> Hey Everyone,
>
> I am new to the list and new to native-nutrition style eating.  I am
> interested in getting started with home brewing.  At first I want to
> start simple and was thinking about getting started with Kefir Beer
> and Kombucha.  Then I wanted to branch into lacto-fermented cokes
and
> finally beer and wine.
>
> I want to make sure I enjoy doings this before I spend a couple
> hundred bucks on equipment so I am trying to get started cheap.
>
> If anyone has any advice for a newbie brewer I would appreciate
it.
>
> I was reading about Kefir Beer and if I am reading it correctly, it
> sounds like I can simply add Kefir grains to a glass container of
> Apple or Grape Juice and let it sit out for about 48 hours.  Will
> store bought juice work or do you have to make your own?
>
> Thanks,
> Jeremy
>




      
________________________________________________________________________________\
____
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total
Access, No Cost.
http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have a copy of NT but I have not picked up Wild Fermentations....maybe I will
have to pick up a copy.

Thanks,

  Jeremy Kruer

Stratton-Kruer Team
RE/MAX Performance Realty
30 Stonecrest Ct
Shelbyville, KY 40065
(O) (502)633-4998
(C) (502)432-5553




----- Original Message ----
From: threehearts0o0 <threehearts0o0@...>
To: native-nutrition@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 1, 2008 11:28:18 PM
Subject: [NN] Re: Want to get into Home Brewing


We've been making ginger beer from NT and mead from Wild
fermentations. We don't have any equipment - yet. Just some big jars
for brewing and small bottles that we've saved from other things.

Ginger beer has become everyone's favourite - I'm going to have to
step up production for summer.

-- In native-nutrition@ yahoogroups. com, "jkruer01" <jkruer01@.. .> wrote:
>
> Hey Everyone,
>
> I am new to the list and new to native-nutrition style eating.  I am
> interested in getting started with home brewing.




      
________________________________________________________________________________\
____
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total
Access, No Cost.
http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If stainless steel leeches things into food then what are we supposed to cook
in?  Doesn't Sally Fallon recommend using stainless steel cookware?  I don't
think they make glass cookware do they???

  Jeremy





As there seems to be increasing uncertainty about what might leech out
of stainless steel into foods or beverages (particularly acidic ones)
the warning against stainless steel is probably worth heeding, since
kombucha can become very acidic.  I have no idea why brown glass would
be a problem, though.  That doesn't seem to make any sense.

-Paul

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




      
________________________________________________________________________________\
____
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total
Access, No Cost.
http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jeremy-

> If stainless steel leeches things into food then what are we
> supposed to cook in? Doesn't Sally Fallon recommend using stainless
> steel cookware? I don't think they make glass cookware do they???

I'm not sure, but I think Sally has expressed some new reservations
about stainless steel.  At any rate, they do make glass cookware, but
maybe more to the point, enamelware is essentially glass-coated
cookware, so enameled cast iron is probably your best bet.

-Paul

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]