Hi,
I wonder if anyone else has ever used a magnetic device called the
Thinking Cap. I bought one about a month ago, from hhgross.com and I
have had good results. I'd like to hear from anyone else who's tried
it. The idea is to stimulate the right side of the brain for creative
stuff and the left side for memory, logic, and so on. The price is
reasonable (under $25), the magnets are very strong, and a bonus is
that you can use them for physical therapy, too. They include a
booklet showing how. Please share any results you may have had. This
thing seems to really work (it's based on legitimate TMS research -
transcranial
magnetic stimulation).
Harry Green

We have another (unpublished) clinical study of permanent magnets for
lower back pain and it too showed an improvement over placebo.

One requirement for having a successful therapy is that the magnetic
field envelops a relevant area and there are two things that need to
be in place for that to happen:

(1) The field must penetrate deeply enough and reach the target
tissue. For lower back pain that usually means getting an effective
distance of at least 2 cm. This is one good reason why the Collacott
study below failed to show any differences.

(2) Placement of the magnets - self-experimentation may work, but it
is hard to place magnets securely on the lower back and experience
with these devices shows that experience is a good thing... Find
somebody who knows something about back pain and is willing to help
you.

-Stefan Engstrom



--- In magnotherapy@y..., JBainSI@a... wrote:
> terrybenton@m... writes:
> > I need a couple of things from you good people.  I have chronic
lower
> > back pain that radiates down both legs (but mostly the left leg.
It
> > stems from my lower back.  I have had a surgery (lumbar
laminectomy)
> > and did not progress out of pain very far. 1) What magnetic
treatment
> > would you suggest?  Why?
>
> There are four lower back pain studies that I know of, one is
negative
> --------------
> Treatment of low back pain with arrays of permanent magnets: a
controlled
> study
> McLean, MJ; Holcomb, RR; MacDonald, PW, Sanderson, L and Lombard,
K:
> 20th Annual Meeting of the Bioelectromagnetics Society, St. Pete
Beach, FL,
> June 7-13, 1998.
> ABSTRACT A 2x2 randomized double-blind cross-over study was done to
assess
> the efficacy of the Magna Bloc in reducing low back and knee pain
in 54
> patients at two centers. The Magna Bloc is a magnetic treatment
device which
> contains a quadripolar permanent magnet system. Pain was assessed
using
> visual analog scale, ranging from zero (no pain) to 100 (maximal
pain). Prior
> to any treatment the average pain rating was 52.9 + 23.3 points
(mean +
> standard deviation). With treatment, the Magna BlocTM reduced pain
by an
> average of 8.11 + 3.38 points more than did the placebo treatment
(P= 0.030).
> If confirmed, this would suggest that the Magna Bloc is effective
in reducing
> chronic low back and knee pain.
>
> Efficacy Of A Static Magnetic Device Against Knee Pain Associated
With
> Inflammatory Arthritis
> Neil Segal, Joseph Houston., Howard Fuchs, Robert Holcomb, Michael
J. McLean
> Vanderbilt University Medical School; Division of Rheumatology,
Department of
> Medicine; and, Department of Neurology Vanderbilt University
Medical Center
> Electromagnetic fields have been used therapeutically for 2000
years, for
> indications ranging from headaches to gout (1). There is
considerable
> evidence that steady direct current and time-variant
electromagnetic fields
> are produced by living bone through metabolic activity and
pizoelectric
> activity upon bone deformation respectively (2). Pulsed
electromagnetic
> fields (PEMF) have been used for acceleration of fracture and
osteotomy
> healing. These effects have been shown to be mediated by reduction
of
> osteoclastic resorption of bone, increased vascularization and
increased rate
> of bone formation by osteoblasts, and these mechanisms have been
studied on
> cellular and gene transcription levels (3). Placebo-controlled
trials have
> shown decreased pain and improved functional performance in
patients with
> osteoarthritis of the knee with PEMF therapy (4). However,
relatively few
> clinical studies have examined the effects of static magnetic
fields.
> In this study, we examined the efficacy of treatment with a static
magnetic
> field generator as adjunctive therapy for the joint pain in
patients with
> inflammatory arthritis. The MagnaBlocĂ" (MB; U.S. patent no
5,312,321) is a
> non-invasive non-significant risk device, consisting of four
permanent
> magnets arrayed with alternating polarity in a hypoallergenic
plastic case.
> The MagnaBloc™ is approximately 3.5 centimeters in diameter,
weighs
> approximately 30 grams and generates a magnetic field of 190
millitesla. This
> device reduced mechanical low back pain and knee pain significantly
more than
> placebo. Much larger time invariant magnetic fields like those
produced by
> magnetic resonance imaging devices have not been shown to be
harmful to man
> or animals
>
> Spine Fusion for Discogenic Low Back Pain: Outcomes in Patients
Treated With
> or Without Pulsed Electromagnetic Field Stimulation
> Richard A. Marks, M.D.
> Sixty-one randomly selected patients who underwent lumbar fusion
surgeries
> for discogenic low back pain between 1987 and 1994 were
retrospectively
> studied. All patients had failed to respond to preoperative
conservative
> treatments. Forty-two patients received adjunctive therapy with
pulsed
> electromagnetic field (PEMF) stimulation, and 19 patients received
no
> electrical stimulation of any kind. Average follow-up time was 15.6
months
> postoperatively. Fusion succeeded in 97.6% of the PEMF group and in
52.6% of
> the unstimulated group (P<.001). The observed agreement between
clinical and
> radiographic outcome was 75%. The use of PEMF stimulation enhances
bony
> bridging in lumbar spinal fusions. Successful fusion underlies a
good
> clinical outcome in patients with discogenic low back pain.
>
> Bipolar Permanent Magnets for the Treatment of Chronic Low Back
Pain A Pilot
> Study
> Collacott E A; Zimmerman JT;White DW;Rindone J P;
> JAMA. 2000;283:1322-1325
> Context  Chronic low back pain is one of the most prevalent and
costly
> medical conditions in the United States. Permanent magnets have
become a
> popular treatment for various musculoskeletal conditions, including
low back
> pain, despite little scientific support for therapeutic benefit.
> Objective  To compare the effectiveness of 1 type of therapeutic
magnet, a
> bipolar permanent magnet, with a matching placebo device for
patients with
> chronic low back pain.
> Design  Randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, crossover
pilot study
> conducted from February 1998 to May 1999.
> Setting  An ambulatory care physical medicine and rehabilitation
clinic at a
> Veterans Affairs hospital.
> Patients  Nineteen men and 1 woman with stable low back pain of a
mean of 19
> years' duration, with no past use of magnet therapy for low back
pain. Twenty
> patients were determined to provide 80% power in the study at P<.05
to detect
> a difference of 2 points (the difference believed to be clinically
> significant) on a visual analog scale (VAS).
> Interventions  For each patient, real and sham bipolar permanent
magnets were
> applied, on alternate weeks, for 6 hours per day, 3 days per week
for 1 week,
> with a 1-week washout period between the 2 treatment weeks.
> Main Outcome Measures  Pretreatment and posttreatment pain
intensity on a
> VAS; sensory and affective components of pain on the Pain Rating
Index (PRI)
> of the McGill Pain Questionnaire; and range of motion (ROM)
measurements of
> the lumbosacral spine, compared by real vs sham treatment.
> Results Mean VAS scores declined by 0.49 (SD, 0.96) points for real
magnet
> treatment and by 0.44 (SD, 1.4) points for sham treatment (P
= .90). No
> statistically significant differences were noted in the effect
between real
> and sham magnets with any of the other outcome measures (ROM, P
= .66; PRI, P
> = .55).
> Conclusions  Application of 1 variety of permanent magnet had no
effect on
> our small group of subjects with chronic low back pain.
> --------------
> The negative study was only 3 treatments, of 6 hours duration.   I
would not
> expect a response that quickly as a rough rule of thumb is that
long term
> conditions tend to take longer to solve.
> However I have seen of back pain after major back surgery being
significantly
> reduced in less than 10 minutes using a only a wrist band.
>
> So, my suggestion is a back belt and a wristband to be worn 24/7.
There can
> be no guarantees of success and we do not understand the mechanism,
so find a
> distributor who will offer you a money back guarantee and if that
particular
> treatment does not work, try another.
>
> > 2) If it has worked, where do you get these magnets?
>
>
> You will find a list of manufacturers on my website.   The devices
I
> recommended would cost 125 UKPounds and come with a three month
money back
> guarantee.
>
>
>    And
> > are they superior to the magnetic belts you can get at the drug
> > store?
>
> There are two basic ways of applying magnets, with only one pole
against the
> body, or with both poles against the body.   There are also
different
> strengths of magnets.
> And there is no way of telling which system would suit you and your
> particular condition best.
> If one system doesn't work for you, try another.   That's why the
money back
> guarantee is so important.
> And your drug store does not offer it.   Probably has relatively
weak magnets
> as well.
>
> > I'm thinking about investing in some magnets if it seems like a
wise
> >
>
> I think it's a wise investment, but then I would, wouldn't I.<g>
>
> Best wishes
> --
> John Bain
> UK TV Sound Director, magnotherapy user & distributor
> http://members.aol.com/JBainSI/Magnotherapy.html
> Surround Sound for Television

"(2) Placement of the magnets - self-experimentation may work, but it
is hard to place magnets securely on the lower back and experience
with these devices shows that experience is a good thing... Find
somebody who knows something about back pain and is willing to help
you."

Re the above...I've used neodymium magnets for years with relation to my
chronic low back pain.  The magnets that I use are easily placed exactly on
the pain, if used alone, with the use of tape.  I also have a magnetic back
belt belt that has 6 neodymium magnets in it.  The magnets are housed in
metal clips.  The clips slide around on the belt so that they can be placed
wherever the pain is.  The belt is strechable and is easily worn anywhere
from hips to upper chest and is not uncomfortable.  It's also easily worn
under clothing and not seen.

Some companies do not take returns.  Magnetic products in many instances are
considered "Health Products" and as such federal law does not permit returns
since the products cannot be resold.

Marlynn

SEngstrom wrote:

> We have another (unpublished) clinical study of permanent magnets for
> lower back pain and it too showed an improvement over placebo.
>
> One requirement for having a successful therapy is that the magnetic
> field envelops a relevant area and there are two things that need to
> be in place for that to happen:
>
> (1) The field must penetrate deeply enough and reach the target
> tissue. For lower back pain that usually means getting an effective
> distance of at least 2 cm. This is one good reason why the Collacott
> study below failed to show any differences.
>
> (2) Placement of the magnets - self-experimentation may work, but it
> is hard to place magnets securely on the lower back and experience
> with these devices shows that experience is a good thing... Find
> somebody who knows something about back pain and is willing to help
> you.
>
> -Stefan Engstrom
>
> --- In magnotherapy@y..., JBainSI@a... wrote:
> > terrybenton@m... writes:
> > > I need a couple of things from you good people.  I have chronic
> lower
> > > back pain that radiates down both legs (but mostly the left leg.
> It
> > > stems from my lower back.  I have had a surgery (lumbar
> laminectomy)
> > > and did not progress out of pain very far. 1) What magnetic
> treatment
> > > would you suggest?  Why?
> >
> > There are four lower back pain studies that I know of, one is
> negative
> > --------------
> > Treatment of low back pain with arrays of permanent magnets: a
> controlled
> > study
> > McLean, MJ; Holcomb, RR; MacDonald, PW, Sanderson, L and Lombard,
> K:
> > 20th Annual Meeting of the Bioelectromagnetics Society, St. Pete
> Beach, FL,
> > June 7-13, 1998.
> > ABSTRACT A 2x2 randomized double-blind cross-over study was done to
> assess
> > the efficacy of the Magna Bloc in reducing low back and knee pain
> in 54
> > patients at two centers. The Magna Bloc is a magnetic treatment
> device which
> > contains a quadripolar permanent magnet system. Pain was assessed
> using
> > visual analog scale, ranging from zero (no pain) to 100 (maximal
> pain). Prior
> > to any treatment the average pain rating was 52.9 + 23.3 points
> (mean +
> > standard deviation). With treatment, the Magna BlocTM reduced pain
> by an
> > average of 8.11 + 3.38 points more than did the placebo treatment
> (P= 0.030).
> > If confirmed, this would suggest that the Magna Bloc is effective
> in reducing
> > chronic low back and knee pain.
> >
> > Efficacy Of A Static Magnetic Device Against Knee Pain Associated
> With
> > Inflammatory Arthritis
> > Neil Segal, Joseph Houston., Howard Fuchs, Robert Holcomb, Michael
> J. McLean
> > Vanderbilt University Medical School; Division of Rheumatology,
> Department of
> > Medicine; and, Department of Neurology Vanderbilt University
> Medical Center
> > Electromagnetic fields have been used therapeutically for 2000
> years, for
> > indications ranging from headaches to gout (1). There is
> considerable
> > evidence that steady direct current and time-variant
> electromagnetic fields
> > are produced by living bone through metabolic activity and
> pizoelectric
> > activity upon bone deformation respectively (2). Pulsed
> electromagnetic
> > fields (PEMF) have been used for acceleration of fracture and
> osteotomy
> > healing. These effects have been shown to be mediated by reduction
> of
> > osteoclastic resorption of bone, increased vascularization and
> increased rate
> > of bone formation by osteoblasts, and these mechanisms have been
> studied on
> > cellular and gene transcription levels (3). Placebo-controlled
> trials have
> > shown decreased pain and improved functional performance in
> patients with
> > osteoarthritis of the knee with PEMF therapy (4). However,
> relatively few
> > clinical studies have examined the effects of static magnetic
> fields.
> > In this study, we examined the efficacy of treatment with a static
> magnetic
> > field generator as adjunctive therapy for the joint pain in
> patients with
> > inflammatory arthritis. The MagnaBlocĂ" (MB; U.S. patent no
> 5,312,321) is a
> > non-invasive non-significant risk device, consisting of four
> permanent
> > magnets arrayed with alternating polarity in a hypoallergenic
> plastic case.
> > The MagnaBloc™ is approximately 3.5 centimeters in diameter,
> weighs
> > approximately 30 grams and generates a magnetic field of 190
> millitesla. This
> > device reduced mechanical low back pain and knee pain significantly
> more than
> > placebo. Much larger time invariant magnetic fields like those
> produced by
> > magnetic resonance imaging devices have not been shown to be
> harmful to man
> > or animals
> >
> > Spine Fusion for Discogenic Low Back Pain: Outcomes in Patients
> Treated With
> > or Without Pulsed Electromagnetic Field Stimulation
> > Richard A. Marks, M.D.
> > Sixty-one randomly selected patients who underwent lumbar fusion
> surgeries
> > for discogenic low back pain between 1987 and 1994 were
> retrospectively
> > studied. All patients had failed to respond to preoperative
> conservative
> > treatments. Forty-two patients received adjunctive therapy with
> pulsed
> > electromagnetic field (PEMF) stimulation, and 19 patients received
> no
> > electrical stimulation of any kind. Average follow-up time was 15.6
> months
> > postoperatively. Fusion succeeded in 97.6% of the PEMF group and in
> 52.6% of
> > the unstimulated group (P<.001). The observed agreement between
> clinical and
> > radiographic outcome was 75%. The use of PEMF stimulation enhances
> bony
> > bridging in lumbar spinal fusions. Successful fusion underlies a
> good
> > clinical outcome in patients with discogenic low back pain.
> >
> > Bipolar Permanent Magnets for the Treatment of Chronic Low Back
> Pain A Pilot
> > Study
> > Collacott E A; Zimmerman JT;White DW;Rindone J P;
> > JAMA. 2000;283:1322-1325
> > Context  Chronic low back pain is one of the most prevalent and
> costly
> > medical conditions in the United States. Permanent magnets have
> become a
> > popular treatment for various musculoskeletal conditions, including
> low back
> > pain, despite little scientific support for therapeutic benefit.
> > Objective  To compare the effectiveness of 1 type of therapeutic
> magnet, a
> > bipolar permanent magnet, with a matching placebo device for
> patients with
> > chronic low back pain.
> > Design  Randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, crossover
> pilot study
> > conducted from February 1998 to May 1999.
> > Setting  An ambulatory care physical medicine and rehabilitation
> clinic at a
> > Veterans Affairs hospital.
> > Patients  Nineteen men and 1 woman with stable low back pain of a
> mean of 19
> > years' duration, with no past use of magnet therapy for low back
> pain. Twenty
> > patients were determined to provide 80% power in the study at P<.05
> to detect
> > a difference of 2 points (the difference believed to be clinically
> > significant) on a visual analog scale (VAS).
> > Interventions  For each patient, real and sham bipolar permanent
> magnets were
> > applied, on alternate weeks, for 6 hours per day, 3 days per week
> for 1 week,
> > with a 1-week washout period between the 2 treatment weeks.
> > Main Outcome Measures  Pretreatment and posttreatment pain
> intensity on a
> > VAS; sensory and affective components of pain on the Pain Rating
> Index (PRI)
> > of the McGill Pain Questionnaire; and range of motion (ROM)
> measurements of
> > the lumbosacral spine, compared by real vs sham treatment.
> > Results Mean VAS scores declined by 0.49 (SD, 0.96) points for real
> magnet
> > treatment and by 0.44 (SD, 1.4) points for sham treatment (P
> = .90). No
> > statistically significant differences were noted in the effect
> between real
> > and sham magnets with any of the other outcome measures (ROM, P
> = .66; PRI, P
> > = .55).
> > Conclusions  Application of 1 variety of permanent magnet had no
> effect on
> > our small group of subjects with chronic low back pain.
> > --------------
> > The negative study was only 3 treatments, of 6 hours duration.   I
> would not
> > expect a response that quickly as a rough rule of thumb is that
> long term
> > conditions tend to take longer to solve.
> > However I have seen of back pain after major back surgery being
> significantly
> > reduced in less than 10 minutes using a only a wrist band.
> >
> > So, my suggestion is a back belt and a wristband to be worn 24/7.
> There can
> > be no guarantees of success and we do not understand the mechanism,
> so find a
> > distributor who will offer you a money back guarantee and if that
> particular
> > treatment does not work, try another.
> >
> > > 2) If it has worked, where do you get these magnets?
> >
> >
> > You will find a list of manufacturers on my website.   The devices
> I
> > recommended would cost 125 UKPounds and come with a three month
> money back
> > guarantee.
> >
> >
> >    And
> > > are they superior to the magnetic belts you can get at the drug
> > > store?
> >
> > There are two basic ways of applying magnets, with only one pole
> against the
> > body, or with both poles against the body.   There are also
> different
> > strengths of magnets.
> > And there is no way of telling which system would suit you and your
> > particular condition best.
> > If one system doesn't work for you, try another.   That's why the
> money back
> > guarantee is so important.
> > And your drug store does not offer it.   Probably has relatively
> weak magnets
> > as well.
> >
> > > I'm thinking about investing in some magnets if it seems like a
> wise
> > >
> >
> > I think it's a wise investment, but then I would, wouldn't I.<g>
> >
> > Best wishes
> > --
> > John Bain
> > UK TV Sound Director, magnotherapy user & distributor
> > http://members.aol.com/JBainSI/Magnotherapy.html
> > Surround Sound for Television
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

group@... writes:
> We have another (unpublished) clinical study of permanent magnets for
> lower back pain and it too showed an improvement over placebo.
> One requirement for having a successful therapy is that the magnetic
> field envelops a relevant area and there are two things that need to
> be in place for that to happen:
> (1) The field must penetrate deeply enough and reach the target
> tissue. For lower back pain that usually means getting an effective
> distance of at least 2 cm. This is one good reason why the Collacott
> study below failed to show any differences.
> (2) Placement of the magnets - self-experimentation may work, but it
> is hard to place magnets securely on the lower back and experience
> with these devices shows that experience is a good thing... Find
> somebody who knows something about back pain and is willing to help
> you.

Another treatment which does not require experience or physiological
knowledge is using a magnetic wristband.   I have anecdotal evidence of this
working.
We offer both wristbands and body modules and the combination of both seems
to give a faster resolution.

But, as always, find a source that offers a good money back guarantee.   If
it doesn't work for you, get your money back and try another system.   It is
usually difficult to be sure what is causing the pain and thus it is
difficult to be sure which system is the best treatment for any individual.
So suck 'em and see.

Best wishes
--
John Bain
UK TV Sound Director, magnotherapy user & distributor
http://members.aol.com/JBainSI/Magnotherapy.html
Surround Sound for Television







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

How can a wristband be beneficial to lower back pain?

On Wed, 2002-06-19 at 10:39, JBainSI@... wrote: group@...
writes:
> We have another (unpublished) clinical study of permanent magnets for
> lower back pain and it too showed an improvement over placebo.
> One requirement for having a successful therapy is that the magnetic
> field envelops a relevant area and there are two things that need to
> be in place for that to happen:
> (1) The field must penetrate deeply enough and reach the target
> tissue. For lower back pain that usually means getting an effective
> distance of at least 2 cm. This is one good reason why the Collacott
> study below failed to show any differences.
> (2) Placement of the magnets - self-experimentation may work, but it
> is hard to place magnets securely on the lower back and experience
> with these devices shows that experience is a good thing... Find
> somebody who knows something about back pain and is willing to help
> you.

Another treatment which does not require experience or physiological
knowledge is using a magnetic wristband.   I have anecdotal evidence of
this
working.
We offer both wristbands and body modules and the combination of both
seems
to give a faster resolution.

But, as always, find a source that offers a good money back guarantee.
If
it doesn't work for you, get your money back and try another system.
It is
usually difficult to be sure what is causing the pain and thus it is
difficult to be sure which system is the best treatment for any
individual.
So suck 'em and see.

Best wishes
--
John Bain
UK TV Sound Director, magnotherapy user & distributor
http://members.aol.com/JBainSI/Magnotherapy.html
Surround Sound for Television







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

I know that the product that John is speaking about is a wonderful one.  I
however find it more advantageous to my magnets directly on the pain. For me
they work much more quickly this way. I handle every pain that I get the same
way. If I have arthritic pains in my fingers I will place a magnet either on
the finger or somewhere close to it.  Because the magnets are neodymium, they
have great depth of penetration....approximately 2" in all directions.  If
the pain is on my leg I will use an individual magnet or a special band
purposely made for that area of the body.  If the pain is in my hips I will
use one of the Back Belts across my hips with the magnets placed directly
over the pain.  This may sound hard to believe, but many people, including
myself, experience relief in a matter of minutes.
Marlynn

Stefan wrote:

> How can a wristband be beneficial to lower back pain?
>
> On Wed, 2002-06-19 at 10:39, JBainSI@... wrote: group@...
> writes:
> > We have another (unpublished) clinical study of permanent magnets for
> > lower back pain and it too showed an improvement over placebo.
> > One requirement for having a successful therapy is that the magnetic
> > field envelops a relevant area and there are two things that need to
> > be in place for that to happen:
> > (1) The field must penetrate deeply enough and reach the target
> > tissue. For lower back pain that usually means getting an effective
> > distance of at least 2 cm. This is one good reason why the Collacott
> > study below failed to show any differences.
> > (2) Placement of the magnets - self-experimentation may work, but it
> > is hard to place magnets securely on the lower back and experience
> > with these devices shows that experience is a good thing... Find
> > somebody who knows something about back pain and is willing to help
> > you.
>
> Another treatment which does not require experience or physiological
> knowledge is using a magnetic wristband.   I have anecdotal evidence of
> this
> working.
> We offer both wristbands and body modules and the combination of both
> seems
> to give a faster resolution.
>
> But, as always, find a source that offers a good money back guarantee.
> If
> it doesn't work for you, get your money back and try another system.
> It is
> usually difficult to be sure what is causing the pain and thus it is
> difficult to be sure which system is the best treatment for any
> individual.
> So suck 'em and see.
>
> Best wishes
> --
> John Bain
> UK TV Sound Director, magnotherapy user & distributor
> http://members.aol.com/JBainSI/Magnotherapy.html
> Surround Sound for Television
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

sales@... writes:
> I know that the product that John is speaking about is a wonderful one.  I
> however find it more advantageous to my magnets directly on the pain.

I quite agree, Marlynn.
I recommend doing both at the same time, and stopping the direct application
when the pain stops.  The wristband seems to be enough to keep the problem
under control.   It is easy to wear, looks like a watch, so is not
embarrassing, and can be worn 24 hours a day without any problems.
By the way our body modules have a velcro backing so they can be used with or
without a belt.   They are used as a sort of first aid kit, if you have a
sprain, or heavy bruising, tissue damage, etc, pop the magnets on for faster
healing.

Best wishes
--
John Bain
UK TV Sound Director, magnotherapy user & distributor
http://members.aol.com/JBainSI/Magnotherapy.html
Surround Sound for Television


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

group@... writes:
> How can a wristband be beneficial to lower back pain?

No idea.
But then I don't know how the magnets on the back work either.
I've read lots of different hypotheses, but nothing is proven so far.

But if you want to see the effects of 'remote' magnetic treatments, go to
these two sites.
  <A HREF=" http://home1.gte.net/infrared/theramag.htm">Thermographic
cameras.</A>
  http://home1.gte.net/infrared/theramag.htm

  <A HREF="http://home1.gte.net/infrared/ba1.htm">Infrared to Monitor
Before/After Therapies</A>
  http://home1.gte.net/infrared/ba1.htm

Wait for the full sequences to load and you will see the moving images of the
thermal effects, on both hands, of putting a magnet on one wrist
The speed of response suggests that the magnets may be treating the blood and
the blood is treating 'the parts the magnetic fields can't reach'.
(Sorry,reference to an old UK advert.)

Again, It's worth a try, and if you can get a money back guarantee where you
are, you have nothing to lose.

Best wishes
--
John Bain
UK TV Sound Director, magnotherapy user & distributor
http://members.aol.com/JBainSI/Magnotherapy.html
Surround Sound for Television


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Message: 3
    Date: 19 Jun 2002 11:06:21 -0500
    From: Stefan <group@...>
Subject: Re: Re: Lower Back Pain Treatment?

>How can a wristband be beneficial to lower back pain?

I purchased a Bioflow wristband 2 years ago because I was experiencing
chronic back pain, the pain eased within a day and then went away completely
by day three.  I have worn it continuously since then, and whereas before I
would receive twinges of back pain almost daily and severe bouts of lasting
2-3 weeks at least twice a year, I am now pain free.  Whenever I do a lot of
gardening I still get twinges of pain, but by the next morning the pain has
gone, in the past gardening usually left me in pain for days.  I put this
all down to my Bioflow wristband.

I wear the band with the magnet against the large artery on the inside of my
wrist.  The theory is that as the blood flows through the artery it picks up
a magnetic charge which helps to speed oxygen flow through the blood system
and also speeds up the removal of lactic acid, which is responsible for a
great deal of pain that people endure.  Bioflow also supply magnets that can
be applied direct to the pain area, and while these are good in dealing with
acute pain, it is not convenient to wear this type of magnet permanently.
This is why the wristband was developed.  Most people wear them constantly
just like a watch.

The Bioflow website gives more details:

http://www.ecoflow.ltd.uk/uk/products/bio_people.htm

My wife (who is a nurse) also bought a Bioflow to help with her hiatus
hernia and to ease her monthly period pain.  Though her pain relief took a
little longer than mine to occur, she was that impressed she became a part
time Bioflow distributor.

One thing that appealed to me with the Bioflow was the 85% money back
guarantee if the product didn't work.  I felt I didn't have a lot to lose so
decided to give it a whirl.  The money I spent on my wristband has been
repaid to me several times now because since wearing it I have not had to
pay out for any visits to my chiropractor or osteopath.

If you'd like more details please feel free to write back and I'll pass on
your e-mail to my wife.  We are UK based but can supply Bioflow products
internationally and of course the 85% money back guarantee is available to
all countries.

Regards,

Fred

fredlawless@... writes:
> The theory is that as the blood flows through the artery it picks up
> a magnetic charge which helps to speed oxygen flow through the blood system
> and also speeds up the removal of lactic acid, which is responsible for a
> great deal of pain that people endure.

We need to be careful assigning theories, the mechanism is not understood or
proven. Dr Vaclavec suggests a buffering effect on the blood restoring blood
pH to optimum levels.   Others have suggested an effect on the fibrin,
breaking up the 'coin-roll' chains of red blood cells.   Both effects lead to
the blood cells carrying more oxygen.

You would need to define what a magnetic charge is, it sounds like a magnetic
monopole.   You would also need to explain what you mean by speed-up, that
suggests a higher blood pressure causing a faster flow, which does not seem
to happen.

What we can say is that fluid flow through magnetic fields does produce
subtle changes to the fluid.   There are plenty of studies showing that.  In
blood, one effect seems to be that more oxygen is carried to the body tissues
and more natural waste products brought out of the tissues.

We need to be careful about ascribing mechanisms, nothing is proven yet.
Some people will attack your theory and claim that as the theory is flawed,
magnotherapy is BS.   But there are plenty of studies showing magnotherapy is
effective.

Best wishes
--
John Bain
UK TV Sound Director, magnotherapy user & distributor
http://members.aol.com/JBainSI/Magnotherapy.html
Surround Sound for Television




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To all...

First of all how could there ever be a magnetic monoplole? To my recollection
monopoles are not magnetic...dipoles are...please elaborate on you monopole
theory.

MFs always follow the laws of physics...in the human body on the molecular
level.

Case in point oxygen!

The oxyhemoglobin molecule was found to have a zero magnetic moment with no
unpaired electrons. Each iron atom attached to the four porphyrin nitrogen
atoms, the globin molecule, and the oxygen molecule by covalent bonds. The
free oxygen molecule contains two unpaired electrons that facilitate its ease
of attachment to and detachment from hemoglobin.

The ferrohemoglobin molecule in contrast to oxyhemoglobin contains sixteen
unpaired electrons (four unpaired electrons per heme) showing a magnetic
susceptibility that had a pronounced paramagnetic contribution, with some
evidence of magnetic interaction between hemes. The bonds of these unpaired
electrons to iron are ionic, lending to hemoglobin's preferential affinity
for oxygen and carbon dioxide.

There are no mysteries here.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

phunkc@... writes:
> First of all how could there ever be a magnetic monoplole? To my
> recollection
> monopoles are not magnetic...dipoles are...please elaborate on you monopole
>
> theory.

I have no monopole theory.   The term 'magnetic charge'  is a fuzzy one and
has been interpreted by some as a claim for a 'magnetic monopole'.

But monopole in magnotherapy terms means using a single pole against the body
and keeping the other pole away from the body.
Bipole is using both poles against the body. (Think horshoe magnet)
Multipole is using series of alternating poles against the body.

> MFs always follow the laws of physics...in the human body on the molecular
> level.

Yup, but we do not always understand the mechanism used.

> Case in point oxygen!
> The oxyhemoglobin molecule was found to have a zero magnetic moment with no
>
> unpaired electrons. Each iron atom attached to the four porphyrin nitrogen
> atoms, the globin molecule, and the oxygen molecule by covalent bonds. The
> free oxygen molecule contains two unpaired electrons that facilitate its
> ease
> of attachment to and detachment from hemoglobin.
> The ferrohemoglobin molecule in contrast to oxyhemoglobin contains sixteen
> unpaired electrons (four unpaired electrons per heme) showing a magnetic
> susceptibility that had a pronounced paramagnetic contribution, with some
> evidence of magnetic interaction between hemes. The bonds of these unpaired
>
> electrons to iron are ionic, lending to hemoglobin's preferential affinity
> for oxygen and carbon dioxide.
> There are no mysteries here.

Then perhaps you can explain what you think is happening in the thermal photo
sequencies.

  <A HREF=" http://home1.gte.net/infrared/theramag.htm">Thermographic
cameras.</A>
  http://home1.gte.net/infrared/theramag.htm
  <A HREF="http://home1.gte.net/infrared/ba1.htm">Infrared to Monitor
Before/After Therapies</A>
http://home1.gte.net/infrared/ba1.htm

Best wishes
--
John Bain
UK TV Sound Director, magnotherapy user & distributor
http://members.aol.com/JBainSI/Magnotherapy.html
Surround Sound for Television


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To all,

If you understand magnetic fields and gradients than you will realize that no
matter what side of the magnet on the so called "monopole magnets" is placed
against the body, the donut shaped gradient that emanates from around the
edges of these magnets is produced by a dipole charge.

There is no fuzziness about "magnetic charge" if one looks in any Physics 101
text book.

I understand these issues well. I have been one of the research pioneers of
magnetotherapy and its effects on biological tissues for many years.

I have used and studied all of the configurations on the market today. As
scientists we must educate and eradicate the misconceptions so prevalent in
the commercial "magnet" market today. If we do not...magnetotherapy will
remain just plain bunk to the academic community.

These thermo photo sequences at face value, without further investigation,
appear to indicate an increase in perfusion in peripheral tissue. I will
attach a Japanese study that may help explain the mechanism. Enjoy this
gift...it was very difficult to acquire this study!

For a better and kinder way of dealing with the human condition.

Best regards,

Liz


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Liz,

thanks for the informations regarding lactice acid and
magnets.

I do belive that most of the msucular pains are from
accumulations of lactic acid in the muscel . I have
been applying the same undrestanding not only by
magnets but by acupucnture as well.

one of the main reason as (I do belive ) is improvment
of circulations that helps better oxygenations of the
tissue which helps for lactic acid to be mobelised to
liver for being metabolised in the Cori cycle.

Magnets also  reducing the body pH to mre alkaline
level , which will consequntly allow the easly
desolving of lactice acid into blood stream.

pain is not only produced by lactic acid crystals but
also by deep muscele contractions which are
compressing the nerves and blood vessels . so when a
magnet is applied , it leads to increase muscular
relaxations , better perfussion and release of the
entraped nerves and blood vessels and probably nerve
ansthesia .

why a magnets effects the body even when it is not
applied locally , is the effect of the magent in
normalising the ph , allowing the lactic acid to move
.local applications initially help the local tissue
but ultimatily effects whole the body.

I also belive that magents effects the resting
membrain potentioal as well  . since they are having
their own electromagnetic field . I remember a
sciatica patient to whom I applied the magnet and
affter that she could not even walk for 1 -2 hourse.
sha had limb ansthesia.

I could not get your attachment of Japanese studies ,
can I have a copy please.

regards all,
Dr,Majid fadaie.






  --- phunkc@... wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>


<tt>
To all,<BR>
<BR>
If you understand magnetic fields and gradients than
you will realize that no <BR>
matter what side of the magnet on the so called
"monopole magnets" is placed <BR>
against the body, the donut shaped gradient that
emanates from around the <BR>
edges of these magnets is produced by a dipole
charge.<BR>
<BR>
There is no fuzziness about "magnetic
charge" if one looks in any Physics 101 <BR>
text book.<BR>
<BR>
I understand these issues well. I have been one of the
research pioneers of <BR>
magnetotherapy and its effects on biological tissues
for many years.<BR>
<BR>
I have used and studied all of the configurations on
the market today. As <BR>
scientists we must educate and eradicate the
misconceptions so prevalent in <BR>
the commercial "magnet" market today. If we
do not...magnetotherapy will <BR>
remain just plain bunk to the academic community.<BR>
<BR>
These thermo photo sequences at face value, without
further investigation, <BR>
appear to indicate an increase in perfusion in
peripheral tissue. I will <BR>
attach a Japanese study that may help explain the
mechanism. Enjoy this <BR>
gift...it was very difficult to acquire this
study!<BR>
<BR>
For a better and kinder way of dealing with the human
condition.<BR>
<BR>
Best regards,<BR>
<BR>
Liz<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
[Non-text portions of this message have been
removed]<BR>
<BR>
</tt>



<br>
<tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a
href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms
of Service</a>.</tt>
</br>

</body></html>


________________________________________________________________________
Want to sell your car? advertise on Yahoo Autos Classifieds. It's Free!!
        visit http://in.autos.yahoo.com

Liz at phunkc@... writes:
> If you understand magnetic fields and gradients than you will realize that
> no
> matter what side of the magnet on the so called "monopole magnets" is
> placed
> against the body, the donut shaped gradient that emanates from around the
> edges of these magnets is produced by a dipole charge.

Yes, that is not in dispute.   If you got any other impression from a post of
mine I apologise, it was not meant.

> There is no fuzziness about "magnetic charge" if one looks in any Physics
> 101
> text book.



A previous poster wrote
> "The theory is that as the blood flows through the artery it picks up
> a magnetic charge which helps to speed oxygen flow through the blood
> system."


I queried this as an explanation.   Are you saying that the previous poster
was correct?
Magnetic Charge
Objects might be able to carry an magnetic-charge; although this has never
been seen in an experiment, such a thing is allowed for by
Maxwells-equations. An object with a magnetic-charge would usually be called
a magnetic-monopole. Things with magnetic-charge produce an <A
HREF="http://www.moo.uklinux.net/kinsler/ircph/maze/magnetic-field.html">magneti\
c-field</A>,
and, if moving, would also create an <A
HREF="http://www.moo.uklinux.net/kinsler/ircph/maze/electric-field.html">electri\
c-field</A>. XKEYWORD:
magnetic-charge 20011228
(c) <A HREF="http://www.kinsler.org/paul/">Dr Paul Kinsler</A>.
http://www.kinsler.org/paul/

The two different meanings of monopole do cause confusion.   In this case we
were talking about a dipole magnet with one pole kept away from the body, not
a monopole magnetic charge.

>
> I understand these issues well. I have been one of the research pioneers of
>
> magnetotherapy and its effects on biological tissues for many years.
> I have used and studied all of the configurations on the market today. As
> scientists we must educate and eradicate the misconceptions so prevalent in
>
> the commercial "magnet" market today. If we do not...magnetotherapy will
> remain just plain bunk to the academic community.

Yup, but which misconceptions are you referring to.


> These thermo photo sequences at face value, without further investigation,
> appear to indicate an increase in perfusion in peripheral tissue.

Yup, but on both hands at the same time, so it is not a direct result of the
magnet on one wrist.




I will
>
> attach a Japanese study that may help explain the mechanism. Enjoy this
> gift...it was very difficult to acquire this study!

Due to virus attacks, attachments are removed from this group.
But I would love a copy of the study.   If you email it to me, I will put it
in the magnotherapy file area at Yahoo groups for everyone to access.

Best wishes
--
John Bain
UK TV Sound Director, magnotherapy user & distributor
http://members.aol.com/JBainSI/Magnotherapy.html
Surround Sound for Television


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 6/23/02 5:02:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time, JBainSI@...
writes:


>
>
> > These thermo photo sequences at face value, without further
> investigation,
> > appear to indicate an increase in perfusion in peripheral tissue.
>
> Yup, but on both hands at the same time, so it is not a direct result of
> the
> magnet on one wrist.
>
>
>
What the thermal images of our product shows is an increase in heat spreading
from where the single magnet is placed, on top of the left hand, rapidly over
the left hand and forearm.  At the same time, the magnetic field radiating
from this single small bipolar neodymium magnet is also increasing the heat
in the right hand and arm of the test subject, which is approximately 6
inches away at its closest from the magnet and does not have a second magnet
applied to it.

This certainly shows that the radiating magnetic field has an effect on the
human body, even at a relatively large distance from the 0.25" Thk. x 0.5"
Dia. magnet.

The heat is the result of increased blood flow to these areas.  This shows
beyond question the real speed, depth and distance of field penetration and
effect of our products.  Frankly, we were amazed with the results when we
received the pictures of the tests back.

Bob Vanson, VP
Theramagnets.com Ltd.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I need clarification...was there only ONE magnet on the left hand...and no
magnet on the right?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

phunkc@... wrote:

>I need clarification...was there only ONE magnet on the left hand...and no
>magnet on the right?
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>


--
Want to feel better than good? Visit http://www.nikken.com and use my
distributor #780076000.

"Affirm divine calmness and peace and send out only thoughts of love and
goodwill if you want to live in peace and harmony. Live a Godly life yourself
and everyone who crosses your path will be helped just by being with you.""



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phunkc@... writes:
> I need clarification...was there only ONE magnet on the left hand...and no
> magnet on the right?


Yes, in the Theramagnet set of photos, the first sequence is without magnets
at all, the second sequence is with a dummy magnet, and the third sequence is
with the real magnet.   In each case the magnet is on the left wrist only.
<A HREF="http://home1.gte.net/infrared/theramag.htm">Thermographic cameras.</A>
http://home1.gte.net/infrared/theramag.htm

In the BA1 sequence the magnet is applied above the right elbow.   As you can
see both hands warm up.
<A HREF="http://home1.gte.net/infrared/ba1.htm">Infrared to Monitor Before/After
Therapies</A>
http://home1.gte.net/infrared/ba1.htm

The visual effect of the warming is weakened by holding the hands down.
There will be some warming due to that, which can be seen in the dummy magnet
sequence.

This is an excellent tool and I would love to see a similar sequence of the
feet.   We have anecdotal evidence that a magnotherapy wristband on the wrist
warms the feet.

If you go to the site, do look at some of the other photos, they are really
beautiful.

Best wishes
--
John Bain
UK TV Sound Director, magnotherapy user & distributor
http://members.aol.com/JBainSI/Magnotherapy.html
Surround Sound for Television


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > These thermo photo sequences at face value, without further
> investigation,
> > appear to indicate an increase in perfusion in peripheral tissue.
John Bain wrote
> Yup, but on both hands at the same time, so it is not a direct result of
> the magnet on one wrist.
BVanson@... writes:
What the thermal images of our product shows is an increase in heat spreading

from where the single magnet is placed, on top of the left hand, rapidly over

the left hand and forearm.  At the same time, the magnetic field radiating
from this single small bipolar neodymium magnet is also increasing the heat
in the right hand and arm of the test subject, which is approximately 6
inches away at its closest from the magnet and does not have a second magnet
applied to it.
This certainly shows that the radiating magnetic field has an effect on the
human body, even at a relatively large distance from the 0.25" Thk. x 0.5"
Dia. magnet.
The heat is the result of increased blood flow to these areas.  This shows
beyond question the real speed, depth and distance of field penetration and
effect of our products.  Frankly, we were amazed with the results when we
received the pictures of the tests back.
Bob Vanson, VP
Theramagnets.com Ltd.

I can see why you conclude that, Bob, the right hand and arm does seem to
warm up first at the side nearest the magnet.
But if you look at the other sequence, which I think was a Nikken device on
the arm, just above the elbow, you will see both hands warming at the same
rate.
Now the Nikken products are not the same strength, so I would not expect the
field penetration you would get with your products, and the hands are feet
away from the magnets.
This suggests to me that the effect is not due to direct action by the
magnetic field on the hands, but by an effect on the blood which travels to
the hands as part of normal blood circulation.

We could prove it by watching the effects with the arms outstretched, and the
hands 4 feet apart, and see if the effect is the same.

Best wishes
--
John Bain
UK TV Sound Director, magnotherapy user & distributor
http://members.aol.com/JBainSI/Magnotherapy.html
Surround Sound for Television






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 6/23/02 2:24:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, phunkc@...
writes:


> I need clarification...was there only ONE magnet on the left hand...and no
> magnet on the right?
>
>


That is correct.  Only one magnet on the left hand and none on the right.
This shows the effect and power of the magnetic field and how far away from
the magnet, this benefit actually reaches.  The test subject was an adult so
you can see that the effect is reaching out well over a foot away.  That's
what we call real distance/depth of penetration.

I should point out that the tests were conducted with our MF2 style Neodymium
magnet and we only use the highest rated Neo material made.  Non-Neodymium
magnets, which therefore have much lower field strength ratings, provide the
same effect on blood supply when applied, but over a proportionally smaller
area and distance.

We do use large numbers of these other types of High Energy and Xtra High
Energy ceramic magnets in our "Pad" products like seat, pillow, chair and
mattress pads including pet sleeping pads.  The intent of these products is
to provide a relatively uniform magnetic field over a very large area where
the total depth of penetration does not need to be as great to accomplish the
desired relief.

Our tests of refrigerator type and other multi-pole magnet designs, currently
being marketed, show that the magnetic field is concentrated along the
surface of the device.  Therefore, by its inherent design, the field is
unable to extend out to any great extent so it can provide a beneficial depth
of penetration to reach deep seated pain several inches below the skin.
These devices are probably OK for rashes and surface abrasions, etc.

Bob Vanson, VP
Theramagnets.com Ltd.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 6/24/02 10:57:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time, JBainSI@...
writes:


>
> I can see why you conclude that, Bob, the right hand and arm does seem to
> warm up first at the side nearest the magnet.
> But if you look at the other sequence, which I think was a Nikken device on
>
> the arm, just above the elbow, you will see both hands warming at the same
> rate.
> Now the Nikken products are not the same strength, so I would not expect
> the
> field penetration you would get with your products, and the hands are feet
> away from the magnets.
> This suggests to me that the effect is not due to direct action by the
> magnetic field on the hands, but by an effect on the blood which travels to
>
> the hands as part of normal blood circulation.
>
> We could prove it by watching the effects with the arms outstretched, and
> the
> hands 4 feet apart, and see if the effect is the same.
>
> Best wishes
>

Something about your conclusion about the Nikken test doesn't make sense.  If
the blood passing the Nikken, or any magnet, is somehow affected so that it
travels to the other hand and causes the observed warming, why didn't it warm
the entire arm and the entire body as it circulated through the body to the
other hand.  Blood does not flow directly from one arm to the opposite hand.
It circulates throughout the body.  That is why the only thing that does
makes sense is that the radiating magnetic field is causing the right hand to
warm up in the theramagnet sequence.  There is no difference to the human
body between being near a strong magnetic field or wearing the magnet causing
the magnetic field, except for a slight difference in field strength measured
at the skin surface.  Touching the magnet does not create some kind of magic.
  That is why magnets have worked when worn on the outside of one's clothing.


Though I don't know what actually caused the other hand to warm up, I suspect
something else occurred.  Possibly the other hand was used to hold the magnet
in place for part of the time and thus had a reaction or the magnet had been
held in that hand before being applied to the other elbow, etc.

Bob Vanson, VP
Theramagnets.com Ltd.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In respect to bilateral perfusion seen in unilateral application of an MF may
indicate a neurovascular effect where the symmetrical vasodilation is not
from the PNS but a CNS response to the MF.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Our tests of refrigerator type and other multi-pole magnet designs, currently

being marketed, show that the magnetic field is concentrated along the
surface of the device.  Therefore, by its inherent design, the field is
unable to extend out to any great extent so it can provide a beneficial depth

of penetration to reach deep seated pain several inches below the skin.
These devices are probably OK for rashes and surface abrasions, etc.

I am a scientist and a researcher and as I have explained have tested all
these products...and I am afraid you are very wrong about the multi pole
designs. Read the literature and the physics alone will change your mind.

Best wishes,

Liz




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

BVanson@... writes:
> Something about your conclusion about the Nikken test doesn't make sense.
> If
> the blood passing the Nikken, or any magnet, is somehow affected so that it
>
> travels to the other hand and causes the observed warming, why didn't it
> warm
> the entire arm and the entire body as it circulated through the body to the
>
> other hand.

Because it isn't that simple.
And only the hands were really cold and were the focus of attention.
Any effect would only be noticed there.


      >Blood does not flow directly from one arm to the opposite hand.

Agreed.

> It circulates throughout the body.

Yup, collecting oxygen and distributing it to the tissues.

      >That is why the only thing that does
> makes sense is that the radiating magnetic field is causing the right hand
> to
> warm up in the theramagnet sequence.  There is no difference to the human
> body between being near a strong magnetic field or wearing the magnet
> causing
> the magnetic field, except for a slight difference in field strength
> measured
> at the skin surface.  Touching the magnet does not create some kind of
> magic.
> That is why magnets have worked when worn on the outside of one's clothing.
>


In that case, the Nikken magnet must be orders of magnitude stronger than
yours, it is much further away from the hands.
And Nikken magnets are not neodymium, or weren't when the photo sequences
were done.   I remember the discussion over whether strength of field or
number of poles was more important.

> Though I don't know what actually caused the other hand to warm up, I
> suspect
> something else occurred.  Possibly the other hand was used to hold the
> magnet
> in place for part of the time and thus had a reaction or the magnet had
> been
> held in that hand before being applied to the other elbow, etc.


Nope, that is clutching at straws.   The test was done in the same way yours
was, a series of photos.   Might say the same about your results.
The evidence is insufficient to support your hypothesis, IMHO.


Best wishes
--
John Bain
UK TV Sound Director, magnotherapy user & distributor
http://members.aol.com/JBainSI/Magnotherapy.html
Surround Sound for Television



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

phunkc@... writes:
> In respect to bilateral perfusion seen in unilateral application of an MF
> may
> indicate a neurovascular effect where the symmetrical vasodilation is not
> from the PNS but a CNS response to the MF.

Yup, could be, but a simpler explanation might be the breakdown of the long
'coin-roll' structures of red blood cells.   I have heard of work being done
in this field, but have been unable to discover who is doing it.

Best wishes
--
John Bain
UK TV Sound Director, magnotherapy user & distributor
http://members.aol.com/JBainSI/Magnotherapy.html
Surround Sound for Television











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

phunkc@... writes:
>>Our tests of refrigerator type and other multi-pole magnet designs,
currently
>being marketed, show that the magnetic field is concentrated along the
>surface of the device.  Therefore, by its inherent design, the field is
  > unable to extend out to any great extent so it can provide a beneficial
depth
  >of penetration to reach deep seated pain several inches below the skin.
  >These devices are probably OK for rashes and surface abrasions, etc.

You are assuming a mechanism.   Perhaps the field does not have to reach
several inches below the skin.




> I am a scientist and a researcher and as I have explained have tested all
> these products...and I am afraid you are very wrong about the multi pole
> designs. Read the literature and the physics alone will change your mind.

I have, Holcomb's work, 23 studies,  is very impressive.
There does seem to be an effect due to the steep field gradients caused by
multipole designs.
---
Effects of Steady Magnetic Fields on Action Potentials of Sensory Neurons in
Vitro
Michael J. McLean, M.D., Ph.D., Robert R. Holcomb, M.D., Ph.D., Artur W.
Wamil, M.D., Ph.D., Joel D. Pickett, M.D.
Environmental Medicine, Volume 8, No.2. 36-45, 1991.
ABSTRACT Exposure to a static field (10 milliTesla) produced by an array of
four permanent magnets of alternating polarity (side, facing neuron under
study) reduced or blocked action potential (AP) firing by adult mouse dorsal
root ganglion neurons in monolayer disassociated cell culture. The effect was
reversible with slow recovery of firing over several minutes. Arrays of four
magnets of like polarity (all positive or all negative poles; 32-35
milliTesla) also reduced firing, but APs returned within seconds after
removal of these arrays. An alternating dipolar array (13.7 milliTesla) had
no effect. These findings suggest that the configuration of magnets and
gradients within the field may be more important than field strength in
determining biological effects. Devices controlling such magnetic fields
could be used for the treatment of chronic, medication-resistant pain.

Measurement And Analysis Of Static Magnetic Fields Which Block Action
Potentials In Cultured Neurons
A.V. Cavopol, A.W. Wamil, R.R. Holcomb and M.J. McLean
Bioelectromagnetics 16:197-206, 1995.
To characterize the algebraic properties of static magnetic fields on firing
of action potentials (AP) by sensory neurons in cell culture, we developed a
mathematical formalism based on the algebraic expression of the magnetic
field of a single circular current loop. The calculated fields fit closely
the field measurements taken with a Hall effect gaussmeter. The biological
effect induced by different arrays of permanent magnets depended principally
on the spatial variation of the fields, quantitated by the value of the
gradient of the field magnitude. Magnetic arrays of different sizes
(macroarray: four center-charged neodymiurn magnets of ~14 mm diameter;
microarray: four micromagnets of the same material but ~0.4 mm diameter)
allowed comparison of fields with similar gradients but different intensities
at the cell position. These two arrays had a common gradient value of ~1
mT/mm and blocked > 70% of AP. Alternatively, cells placed in a field
strength of ~0.2mT and a gradient of ~0.02mT/mm produced by the macroarray
resulted in no significant reduction of firing; a microarray field of the
same strength but with a higher gradient of ~1.5mT/mm caused ~80% AP
blockade. The experimental threshold gradient and the calculated threshold
field intensity for blockade of action potentials by these arrays were
estimated to be ~0.02 mT/mm and ~0.02 mT, respectively. In conclusion, these
findings suggest that spatial variation of the magnetic field is the
principal cause for AP blockade in dorsal root ganglia in vitro.
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Best wishes
--
John Bain
UK TV Sound Director, magnotherapy user & distributor
http://members.aol.com/JBainSI/Magnotherapy.html
Surround Sound for Television







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I know many alternative practitioners that are looking at that process with
dark field photography...but blood is not as simple as it seems. The correct
balance of all blood constituents as well as electrolyte, pH, 02, Co2, and
hydration (just to name a few) are profound variables. If the body is not
balanced in these respects then a MF will not affect a dramatic change no
matter how good it is.

I myself have not seen enough of concrete scientific proof of your coin roll
theory in respect to MFs. Theoretically the break down of coin rolls can be
accomplished with rehydration alone.

Best Wishes,

Liz


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I have Holcomb's studies as well as many, many others...Steep field gradients
are the key. Have you read through the entire content of these studies? I am
pleased that you do review the literature!

Liz



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